May  2003 
Year 9    No.87

Cover Story


‘India has a problem’

MUMBAI, March 16, 2003

By ANIL THAKRANEY

Dr Praveen Togadia, Vishwa Hindu Parishad’s aggro front-man, fashionably titled its ‘International General Secretary’, is on a mission to spread the word of Hindutva across the country...

Sir, what brings you to Bombay?
(Immediately goes on the offensive.) Why, why I should not come to Mumbai? Is it not a part of Hindustan?

Oh, oh… my apologies, did not mean it that way. I asked, what is your work agenda for coming here?
India has three major kendras. Political, Delhi, cultural, Benares and economical, Mumbai. So I have come to address the economic capital of India on exactly what the VHP wants to do, our future plans. To explain our hurdles, and also what we want the people of Bharat to do.

So what specifically is your message for the people of the city?
I would like to communicate that we are being treated like second class citizens.

Who is this ‘we’?
Hindus. I represent Hindus.

But sir, you have not been elected by the Hindus to represent their cause.
See, nobody expresses the problems, sentiments of the Hindu society other than the VHP.

But yours is not a democratically elected entity.
Are you saying, except elected political parties, nobody has the right to speak on behalf of society? We express concerns, try to solve the problems of the Hindu society. For example, no one else is taking up the cause of cow protection.

Yeah, but isn’t that the job of the elected, ruling government of the day?
Are you saying, in democracy, everything should be left to the government? Should the citizens go to sleep?

No, but the concerned citizens should first ask of the government to get involved in issues, especially the sensitive ones. Else we can all flout parties for whatever causes we want, and take independent decisions. But my question is, you don’t have a mandate from the Hindus of India to represent them. It seems to be a job you have taken upon yourself.

Representation is always claimed by your acts and deeds. We are the people who have raised the Ramjanmabhoomi issue. We are the people fighting against conversions. We are the people providing education to tribals in 5,000 villages. These are the things which have given us credibility.

Back to Bombay. Are you here to talk only to the Hindus of Bombay? Or, also to the Muslims, Christians and other communities?
I address total people, everybody. In fact, at tomorrow’s presentation, I am specifically addressing the Muslim community.

And what do you wish to say to them?
That we have to accept that we have a problem. Problems that lie in Islam’s ideology, and the Hindu civilisation. We need to address problems of why thousands of our temples were destroyed.

But that possibly happened 400 years ago. What can the current generation of Muslims do about it?
No, I am talking about today, 150 temples have been destroyed in the Kashmir valley. I am talking of the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindus in the valley that is currently happening. Yesterday’s bomb blast in Mumbai is not 400 years old.

But sir, we yet don’t know who is responsible for the Mulund blast. The enquiry has only just begun. How are you assuming the Muslims did it?
In almost all terrorist attacks, the culprits identified are Muslims. Whether it is from Pakistan or from Bharat. Tell me, who attacked India’s Parliament? Who attacked Akshardham? Who was responsible for Godhra? So given that, certainly for the Bombay blast, I would assume they were jehadi Muslims.

Yes, but they could well be Pakistani ISI agents. Do you see no difference between an Indian Muslim and a Pakistani Muslim?
Look, I am not saying all Muslims are against India, that each and every Muslim is a fundamentalist. But tell me, whenever we are seeing a terrorist, why is he a Muslim only? So, it is the duty of the Muslim society.

Yes, but can an Indian Muslim take the fall for what Muslims from the rest of the world do?
OK, agreed we don’t have evidence of one particular incident in Mumbai, but you are not accepting so many chronological incidents of the past. You are forgetting that the Kashmiri Muslims, who are in the majority in that state, have become terrorists.

Yeah, but what must the Bombay Muslim do about that?
The jihadi philosophy of all Muslims is the same, whether they are from Bosnia or Kashmir or Mumbai or Coimbatore. It is the same intolerant, uncivilised, anti–democratic, anti–pluralistic, jihadi policy that is creating problems for humanity.
So you cannot see Mumbai in isolation… you have to see it in reference to global terrorism.

But isn’t it possible that a majority of the Muslims in India have no role to play in terrorism? I mean, don’t you consider that could be a possibility?
Do you think terrorists who attacked our Parliament could do so without local support?

But sir, one cannot hold an entire community responsible for the deeds of a few. Still, what is your core message to them?
I will show a formula for a long-term Hindu-Muslim peaceful co-existence.

So you have a formula. What is it?
Sorry, I shall only speak about it at the presentation tomorrow.

Next. Do you support the Allahabad High Court order, one that has asked archaeologists to excavate the disputed site in Ayodhya to check if there is evidence of a temple there?
VHP has already welcomed it.

But don’t you think it is a bit of a faulty process? Some debris cannot for sure tell us whether a temple did or did not exist.
There is a funny thing about Indian secularists and communists… they always try to find out a thesis on how to humiliate Hindu society. First, you people said there is no evidence of the temple in Ayodhya, and now when the court has asked for excavation, why the fear? All along, the secularists and Muslims were misguiding the people of the country, and now that there is evidence, they are getting scared.

Sir, my question is: what if no evidence is found? Will you drop the demand of a temple at the site?
When I reach the bank of the river, I will decide.

No, but if you believe in the judgment, simple logic tells us: no evidence of a temple equals no temple.
Don’t talk logic with me… by using logic, I can prove you to be an animal. (The doc seems to have this wild habit; he had once tried to equate Sonia Gandhi with an Italian bitch.)

Whoa… me?
Yes, you! I am saying, if you see logically, any human being can be proved to be an animal. So that’s not the way to do things.Logic is not an answer for history. Better go to school and college and teach logic. (At this stage, the coterie burst into laughter. So does Dr Togadia.)

Right. You have gone on record to say that the Indian madrassas teach the kids to be terrorists.
Yes, the madrassas are teaching jihad. It is the Afghan madrassas that produced the Taliban. The curriculum of an Indian madrassa and a Pakistani madrassa, and an Afghani madrassa cannot be different.

I am asking, how are you so sure that is the case? Have you ever bothered to visit a madrassa to see what happens there?
No. But we know a Maulvi Umarji is the creation of a madrassa. Today one Maulvi Umarji, tomorrow a thousand.

Do you think we should attack Pakistan?
As long as there are terrorists in Pakistan, there will be attacks on India. So we should attack Pakistan and cut it into so many pieces, that not a single piece is able to support a state sponsored terrorist policy.

But you say this in the knowledge that they now have nukes too, and an attack can have a devastating result for India?
Either we take the risk of nuclear weapons, or continue to be killed at the hands of terrorists.

But aren’t talks a better way out?
I think we should go for war against Pakistan.

Onto Godhra. Do you believe rape of innocent women, as a revenge for Godhra killings, is justified?
Not a single rape case has been established in Gujarat.

But we have heard of reports being filed.
Please wait for the results of the Shah Commission, please follow a democratic process, let’s see their findings first.

But what if it’s proved that it happened? Would you not be angry about it?
Why are you so impatient? Wait for the Shah Commission’s findings. Why should we assume anything? (Really angry now). The reason you are not willing to wait, is that you have decided to blame the Hindu society. So you secularists are part of a jihadi nexus. It is a canard you are running, because you secularists are in nexus with jihadi forces.

(At this point, an agitated Dr Togadia rises from his chair, abruptly ending the interview, leaving many questions unanswered. His coterie rises in sync too, and announces that the interview is done. I follow the group to the next room, where Dr Togadia is set to address his party workers. I am politely asked to leave the room, ‘immediately’. On asking why so, someone gently mutters, "Because you are an outsider.") 

http://www.chalomumbai.com/news/city/2003/march/47500.htm


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