Interview with Anwar Ibrahim, Malaysian Political Leader, By
Farish A. Noor
Farish: ‘Today we live in the age of the ‘War on Terror’. The
American government now seems terrified of the monsters it has
created and unleashed, like the Taliban which it supported in
Afghanistan but now cannot control.
What role can
Muslim leaders like you play in addressing these complex
realities?’
Anwar: ‘It is not just the American government that should be
terrified. We too in the Muslim would should be deeply
concerned. We should be worried about how this form of
mindless savagery can appear in our midst, grow among us and
recruit its members among our own. The emergence of groups like
the Taliban raises many important questions and challenges for
us in the Muslim world. How could our values and beliefs that
we hold so dear have been twisted and brought down to hell like
this, and take root in our midst. There is a pressing need for
us to look closer at ourselves and ask how and why our
societies and political systems could have allowed this to
happen. For me the absence of democracy, transparency and
dialogue within the Muslim world is one main reason. But
external factors are also obviously responsible: Clearly the
Americans have been playing with fire, heedless of the
dangerous blowback that is bound to occur if and when they (the
Americans) attempt to manipulate and utilise Muslim groups and
get them to fight against one another.
This is also why it is crucial for the Americans and the West to
engage in constant, open dialogue with the Muslim world:
Manipulations of this sort (America’s support for the Taliban)
have led to the mess we see in Afghanistan today. I fear for the
future of Afghanistan as there appears to be no simple
solutions to the problems there, which have been made worse by
decades of conflict, subterfuge, intrigue and manipulation.’
Farish: ‘Southeast Asia has been designated the ‘second front’
in the so-called ‘War on Terror’ dreamt up by Washington.
Indonesia has been particularly badly hit, with the Bali,
Marriott, and now Australian Embassy bombings recently. It is
hard to believe everything we hear about the Jamaah Islamiyah
because we know that much of this information has come from the
military and secret police of ASEAN. But, in case it turns out
that the JI is really responsible for these attacks, what
would you say to the members of such groups? How would you
appeal to them? What would your message be to such groups in
ASEAN and the rest of the Muslim world?’
Anwar: ‘I, too, have no answer to the question of the extent of
the involvement of the Jamaah Islamiyah, as so much of the
information we have received is questionable and from
non-transparent sources. But my message to the perpetrators of
these vile acts, whoever they may be, is this: In the name of
God, what do you think you are fighting against and what are
you fighting for? Because what you are really doing is neither
war nor jihad. This is just the senseless slaughter of innocent
civilians who have done no wrong. Such actions have no place in
Islam and as all the scholars of the Muslim world have stated,
it is simply haram. So what do you think you are doing? How are
you helping Muslims and the good name and image
of Islam by these actions? I address these words to the
perpetrators of these acts, for as I have
said, there is little that we actually know about these groups
and the governments of the ASEAN countries have not been open
in their investigations. Nonetheless I am deeply appalled and
moved by these painful events.’
Farish: ‘Following from that point, the war on terror in ASEAN
has incurred a terrible cost in terms of the loss of human
rights and the erosion of democratic values. This is evident in
the laws that are being used in Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore,
Thailand and the Philippines. What is your own response to
these developments and how would you deal with the situation?
Anwar: ‘The horror that we have seen in ASEAN over the past few
years is really a wake up call for the moral majority in the
Muslim community.
As I have
said, we can no longer ignore these questions and developments
in our midst.
But we cannot fight against these anti-democratic groups and
tendencies with repressive laws and other draconian means. The
governments of ASEAN cannot and should not use repressive,
undemocratic tools or the ‘War on Terror’ discourse of the
United States as a pretext to further impose their will or to
stifle dissent. We need to seek the root causes of such
problems, and for me again it is the absence of a democratic
culture and a vibrant, tolerant civil society that contributes
to these problems.
What we need is to create a dynamic, open and
inclusive civil society that can deal with difference and
dissent. That is how one wins the battle for hearts and minds.
You cannot win the hearts of these people by using ruthless
methods like arbitrary arrests and repressive laws.’
Farish: ‘Since you have mentioned the need for democracy, civil
society and reform several times, I would like to ask you
this: Many in the world see you as a moderate progressive
Muslim leader and that remains your greatest asset till now.
Can you spell out your vision of progressive Islam and its
future? What should be the core issues of such a progressive
Islamist project? Anti-racism? Anti-corruption? The struggle
for democracy?
Anwar: ‘I am worried about such labels like ‘moderate Muslim’,
‘progressive Muslim’, etc. because I think such labels are
misleading and can sometimes be used to contain, define and
subsequently control Muslims for political reasons. Such
labels may actually lead to dividing the Muslim community even
further, and we should be careful of such categorisation. But
having said that for me one of the best examples of a model
Muslim leader was Sayidinna Abu Bakar, who, upon being given the
responsibility of serving as the first Caliph of Islam,
stated continuously that the real power of the Muslim community
lay in the people themselves, and not him. He insisted that he
was merely the executor of the people’s will and that ultimate
power resided with the people and not their elected leader.
That’s how we should look at the question of power from the
Islamic point of view. Now to measure the success of any
Muslim form of leadership we need to look at the results and
what it manages to deliver. The success of a Muslim ruler lies
in his ability to positively transform the real life conditions
of the people who have chosen him/her.
What does this mean today, in the context of
present-day realities?
Well for a start it means having to transform the
socio-economic conditions of a populace and to improve their
welfare and living conditions. Added to this is the social
environment they inhabit and this in turn brings in other
questions like the culture of tolerance, pluralism and the
problem of prejudice and discrimination.
I agree with you that racism has been an issue that
has been neglected for some time. Islamists talk a lot about
equality and universalism in Islam, but they need to root
their discourse in realities of the present. What does all
this mean in terms of race-relations for instance? As there is a
clear focus on spiritual equality in Islam, there cannot be a
place for racism in Muslim society. So Islamist groups need to
work on these issues too – they
cannot be racist or parochial in their approach and their
politics.'
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Farish Noor can be contacted on
[email protected]
