The root of the problem is occupation’
BY BARBARA CROSSETTE
Lakhdar Brahimi, a leading United Nations troubleshooter in
the Middle East who also presided over the
Bonn conference in 2001 that created the post-Taliban government of Afghanistan,
is a former Algerian foreign minister who has tracked the growth of Islamic
militancy across North Africa and in the wider Muslim world. In an interview
with The Nation, Brahimi talks about the potentially dangerous fallout in
the Mideast and beyond, of the Israeli bombardment of Gaza and the burden it
puts on President-elect Obama as he tries to improve the image of the United
States.
Q: Why have the Israelis done this now?
A: What I’m hearing and reading is that it must have a lot to do with the
forthcoming election and that the people who are in not doing so well in the
polls. They want to improve their ratings once again at the expense of the
people of Palestine. That may be one reason. But whatever the reason, this is
going to make things much worse, not only for the Palestinian people but also, I
think, for the whole region.
And this is not going to make things easier for the next
[American] administration to deal with the problems of this very, very sensitive
region – not only Palestine itself but a host of other problems, from Iraq to
Afghanistan.
Q: It has been suggested that the Israelis are
showing their muscle to compensate for their disaster in attacking Hizbollah in
Lebanon.
A: That is quite possible too. But it is so terribly sad that whenever you
have a problem then you just punch the Palestinians and you think you can solve
some problem. Because you didn’t do well against the Lebanese two years ago,
well, why don’t we do much better against the Palestinians. This is a reminder
of the invasion of Iraq – that we’ve been attacked by a group of Muslims so
let’s attack a Muslim country even if we know perfectly well that the given
country had absolutely nothing to do with the 9/11 attack.
Q: Mahmoud Abbas, the Egyptians and others simply
cannot sit by and watch this assault on Gaza go on, can they?
A: I’m afraid they are. This is at the very least a terrible embarrassment
for Mahmoud Abbas who has put all his money on working with the Israeli
establishment and also with the American administration, believing – as I
suppose he has – in the promises that some kind of solution will take place or
at least some improvement in the condition of the Palestinians. But he has
absolutely nothing to show for his line of policy.
I think the Arab governments that supported him must share in
his embarrassment. And once again the so-called militants, the resistance, those
who people call extremists, will be in a position to say once again, we told you
so; we told you that your belief in the magnanimity of the Israelis, your belief
in the promises of the American administration – that there will be a two-state
solution before the end of this year – was naïve at best and irresponsible,
probably, at worst.
Q: What will happen in the West Bank as a result
of the assault on Gaza?
A: If the past is anything to go by, these kind of total attacks that
do so much harm to civilians generally reinforce the so-called extremists, not
the moderates. I think it was said in Haaretz that no military action has
reinforced the moderates in the history of Israel. One has to suppose that in
this particular case Hamas will come out politically reinforced no matter how
much they will lose militarily. That is true not only in Gaza but also in the
West Bank.
I’m afraid it will be true also in the rest of the Arab world.
The Islamist political movements in the Arab world live really on the lack of
success of the so-called moderates, the people who are cooperating with the
West. They thrive on their failures and, in particular, on their total impotence
to help the people of Palestine. I’m sure that from Morocco to Indonesia,
really, the Islamists will gain capital out of this.
Q: Does this worsen bad feelings about the United
States just at a time when there was hope that things could soon be different?
A: The statement read by the spokesman of the president of the United
States, it is predictable. Still, it will be heard with a deep sense of outrage
in Palestine, in the Arab world, in the Muslim world and, I think, in the Third
World in general. While people are looking at their television screens, at the
corpses which you do not see on American television, of kids being killed, [for]
the president of the United States to go out and say, this is the fault of the
Palestinians, that is beyond belief. This will certainly not improve the
standing of the United States.
Q: Will people understand that if Obama seems
silent now it is because he does not want to pronounce on foreign policy while
the Bush administration is still in office?
A: As a government bureaucrat myself, I understand that. Whether the
common people understand why you don’t do anything in a case where humanitarian
law and international law is ignored and broken in such a brutal manner, I’m not
sure.
Q: The US has almost always kept the issue of
Israel out of the United Nations Security Council and this does not help in
finding internationally backed solutions.
A: Of course not. The United States very, very definitely could be
the honest broker. They certainly have the tools to help solve this problem. And
I think the parameters of solving this problem are already there now. Even the
Israelis speak now of a two-state solution. The thing is to make it happen. The
Americans can certainly do that but they will definitely not do it if they
continue to support Israel whatever Israel does. With that attitude they are
ruling themselves out as a truly honest broker.
The Arab governments are facing now a very difficult choice: to
continue to pretend that the Americans can be an honest broker or to actually
join their people and say, the Americans have chosen to be on the Israeli side.
So let’s treat them as such; let’s treat them as they want to be treated,
recognise them as they want to be recognised, as supporters of Israel no matter
how outrageous its actions are.
Q: When this is over, is there any way to bring
Hamas into a serious conversation about the future of the Palestinians?
A: Absolutely. Hamas won an election and what should have been done
is, immediately after the election, is to go to them and tell them,
congratulations: you have won and now you want to govern. We would like to help
you govern. But for that there are conditions.
But what was done was the entire international community – and,
I’m sorry to say, some Arab countries – told Hamas, no, we don’t want to talk to
you. It’s not impossible to go to Hamas and tell them, if you want to play an
important part in the leadership of your people, you’ve got to talk to others
and listen to views other than yours. I’m almost certain that they would.
Q: To whom would they listen?
A: I think they would listen to anybody and certainly to the
Americans. [But] the Americans have acted to stop anybody talking to Hamas. Even
Abbas. They have been putting a lot of pressure on him. I know this for a fact.
And they have been telling the same thing to the Arab governments. They have
adopted the Israeli line, not 99 per cent but 100 per cent.
Q: Is the US going to pay a price for not talking
with Iran, which backs Hamas, or with other countries in the region?
A: I think now that in the region they know that the present administration
has been consistent in being hostile to the people of the region. But what they
are saying is, OK, this administration is out in 20 days. Let’s see if the next
administration will act a little bit different or not.
Q:
Where are the Europeans? Can they play a role in influencing Israel at this
point?
A: I’m afraid they are nowhere. Europe may have become an economic
giant but it is politically a midget. They don’t exist politically, not
collectively. In private discussions with Europeans at the highest level, they
will say something. But publicly they show absolutely no courage in backing
their talk about human rights and fairness and democracy with concrete
attitudes. Though there are shades of difference among European countries... I
tell my friends in Europe they have really disqualified themselves to speak of
human rights and democracy.
Q: What is the game plan you would draw up for
Barack Obama now, given what has happened in Gaza?
A: He said that he will pay attention to this problem from day one.
He also said when he went to Israel – and this is being quoted again and again –
that if rockets were raining on my house I would definitely do something to stop
it. Yes, do something. But what is it that you do? Kill innocent Palestinians
because innocent Israelis are under threat? I think you look at the problem and
you see that at the root of the problem is occupation. So if you want to protect
your daughters, work to end occupation. There are lots of Israelis who share
that view. Why do you support the most extreme Israelis? Why not look out for
those brave Israelis who have very strong Zionist credentials, who fought for
Israel, who believe in Israel and who think that what [their] government is
doing is wrong? Why not take their view into consideration?
He must have made his analysis of what his inheritance is and
what needs to be done to re-establish the kind of leadership the people of the
United States have the right to aspire to. Do they want people to fear them,
hate them, or do they want people to admire them and look up to them – a country
that people have confidence in? I hope he will take the kind of decisions that
will be good for the people of America.
Q: Is there still enough goodwill out there after
these recent events in Gaza? Does he have half a chance to turn the image
around?
A: I think he has but I think this administration is doing their
damnedest to reduce his chances.
(Barbara Crossette, United Nations correspondent for The
Nation, is a former New York Times correspondent and bureau chief in
Asia and at the UN and the author of several books focusing particularly on
Asia. This interview was published in The Nation on December 29, 2008.)
Courtesy: The Nation; www.thenation.com
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