A: At the root of our theological understanding is the realisation that there is actually no difference between theology as such and anthropology. The science of God and the science of Man are one and the same. Our theological mandate also entails the full humanisation of Man, because, as the Bible says, God made Man in His own image. Hence, according to us, there is no difference between a true man of God and a true man of the world.

Now, this theological project of the full humanisation of Man forces one to actively intervene in the affairs of the world, to combat obstacles that stand in the path of realising the fullest potential of all human beings. In a context of massive poverty and galling inequalities, as we have in our country, this project can only go ahead by exercising the option for the poor. We believe that you cannot call yourself a true man of God or a true man of the world if you do not choose to exercise this option. For us, this option is a necessary part of our theology.

A: You do have a point there. In fact, the Church structures are, in large measure, still very Brahminical, hierarchical and highly bureaucratic.

Because of this, the Church has begun to lose contact with the Dalit masses. In the name of ‘Indianising’ the Church what has happened is that a subtle process of Brahminisation has been brought in, which is a total negation of the Dalit ethos and the Dalit identity. The Brahminisation of the Church has meant that the symbols and culture of the Dalits have been completely ignored, although the Dalits and the tribals constitute the vast majority among the Indian Catholics. However, in recent years, many Dalit and tribal Christians have begun demanding that they should be allowed to articulate their own symbols, that they should not be forced to denigrate or deny their own rich cultures.

The marginalisation of the Dalits has been particularly noticeable with regard to Catholic schools. There is a great measure of truth in the accusation that elite Catholic schools have actually been giving quality education to dominant social groups rather than to the most needy. But, in recent years there has been a change in our policies. Recently, the heads of various Jesuit colleges in India got together for a meeting and we decided that we should now devote far more attention than we have so far been doing to Dalit education.

A: Dalit theology is theological reflection rooted in the understanding that God is struggling with the Dalits for their liberation, that He is on their side. It seeks to instil a sense of pride in their identity, because a theology that does not provide them a sense of pride is, for all purposes, a useless one.

A: Yes, there is a problem here, but that is because the religio-cultural, educational and social system within which the Dalits find themselves insists that the Dalits are ‘impure’, are ‘lesser’ beings and so on. On the other hand, what Dalit theology says is that for the Dalits to liberate themselves from the shackles of the caste system, they must learn to take pride in their identity, their heroes, their role in the productive process and their history. Only on that basis can a solid foundation for the Dalit liberation movement be constructed.

A: When a historically marginalised and oppressed community like the Dalits begins to organise and assert itself for its rights, there is bound to be conflict, especially since this will obviously not be to the liking of groups who have developed vested interests in keeping the Dalits enslaved for centuries. And this is what is happening today. It is really strange that when the Dalits were kept oppressed for centuries as victims of structural violence no one talked about violence as an issue, but now that the Dalits have started demanding their rights people accuse them of fomenting violence and hatred. As I see it, there can be no change without conflict. There is no running away from it.

Q: According to the Bible, if someone slaps you on one cheek, you should not retaliate but, rather, offer him the other. How, as a Christian, do you reconcile this with what you have just said?

A: You need to see what Jesus said in the context of his times. In any case, we are not tied down to a scripture or a person. You see, Jesus himself was a revolutionary, who fought for the rights of the poor and the oppressed of his times. In actual fact, Jesus was killed — brutally murdered — just because he exercised the option for the poor and challenged the powers of oppression...

A: No, no, no. In actual fact, traditional Christian theology has sought to spiritualise the whole affair to rob Jesus’ mission of its revolutionary message, to domesticate and tame its radical social programme. This has been the sad fate of all theologies, not just Christian. Theologies, by their very nature, are conservative. Over time, they develop as means to serve the interests of dominant social groups. So, I firmly believe that despite all the nice, syrupy words that theologians use to account for Jesus’ death, he was actually brutally murdered, the reason being that he stood for certain principles and took the side of the oppressed. To me you cannot be a true Christian if you do not follow his example and struggle against the powers and structures of oppression.

A: According to traditional Christian theology, sin is rooted in the individual. But we go beyond and also see sin as stemming from sinful social structures like poverty, capitalism, patriarchy, international debt or consumerism and so on. This is what is called ‘social sin’, and in order to fight sin we need to combat these sinful structures as well.

A: As I said earlier, theology and theologians all tend to be conservative. And as long as the Church remains conservative, as long as it remains in the hands of dominant social groups, who often use it to bolster their own interests, it cannot liberate the Dalits. How to make this break from theology to life is a very big challenge before all of us.

A: Sanskritisation may help a few individuals escape from the curse of untouchability, but it in no way challenges the caste system itself. On the contrary, it only strengthens it. Rather than helping instil a sense of pride in their identities, it makes them denigrate and completely deny their histories, their very selves. Sanskritisation is just another name for Hinduisation or Brahminisation. There is really no space within Brahminical Hinduism for Dalit liberation. Dalit liberation is not possible without a positive affirmation of Dalit pride and identity, and this Sanskritisation seeks completely to deny. So, as I see it, neither Brahminism nor traditional Christian theology as we have it today holds any promise for Dalit emancipation. n